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Title: Vanity and Value: The Social Media Episode 

Hey guys, welcome back. Today we are diving into all things social media. There's a lot of talk about vanity and value when it comes to social media. How much value should you offer? What metrics are important? Why does it feel like you need to try and be a social media influencer to have a successful business? In this episode, we break it down and show you how to make sure your social media efforts are worth your time. And that you're not just putting in a whole lot of work for nothing. If you've been listening to the show, you know that I like to give Instagram a bad rap. 

So special guests here hopper is here from Tia Hopper consulting, and she's going to weigh in on Facebook, Instagram, and how much social media is enough for business owners. Tia is a social media strategist that helps business owners and entrepreneurs just like you discover your unique story and simplify your social media through a strategic approach. So that you can find joy in social media again, you can get your time back and live the life you desire. Welcome to the show, Tia. Hi Tia. Thanks so much for joining us. 

Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. 

Yeah, it's such a relevant topic. And so you know, I was looking through some of your notes and social media profiles and stuff before we got started. And I was so excited to bring you onto the episode and share. So talk a little bit about who you are and who you serve.

Okay, I am a social media strategist, coach, consultant, speaker and trainer. I've been doing that for about six years, I've kind of you know, going from management to really focusing on strategy. And I love to work with specifically women, business owners and entrepreneurs who are just on hire for their brand, and want to tell their story, but they are having trouble doing that. Because one, they haven't got clear on what their story actually is somebody they don't know who they are trying to serve. And so that prevents them from showing up online and telling their authentic stories. So that's what I love to empower them to tell their story to help them with their business.

Awesome. Yes, you know, social media, it really touches every single business owner, there isn't a business out there that can avoid social media altogether. So have you always been a social media fan? Or was that something that kind of came on later in life? How did that progress?

Love Hate Pattern

I don't even know if I would call myself a social media. There you go. I definitely, you know, that's kind of a big part of my story is just pulling, you know, pushing love it ate with it, but I think that's helped me be a better coach because I get what other people because we all feel that way. But I really fell into it by accident, I need to have a broadcast media and marketing communication background. After college I was like a marketing specialist. So I did all the things. And I think because of my age, I became that Tolkien digital marketing social media person, because it was just like, you know, I was the young person at the time, but also professionally in person. And so of course, I just took it and ran with it. I love community building. I mean, that's what drew me to social media, right, because I love people. And so my first job in social media was more of a title was director of visual engagement, but it was private community building, which I love that part of it. And again, just social media became, you know, more and more . As I was working full time, I had people asking me to help them on the side. And so I embraced it. And so I still, you know, what I love about it is the strategy side of it, and helping people figure out why they are using it in first place, like get really clear on their goals, and then have success on it and also help them create a system so that when they aren't feeling, you know, that part of the relationship they can be successful with with less time and kind of get out of the rat race of it. So those are the things that I love about it. And yes, I'd say you know, I am still a fan, but there are things about it that it you know, still drive me crazy, like everybody tried to take that in and then help people because I think it was you know, a lot of business owners entrepreneurs that you know, tend to kind of be that achiever type a visit. We all kind of probably have that same feel towards social media. We want to do well on it, but we also were like, we know, we just can't do it perfectly, which is what we tried to do. So it becomes kind of a Yeah, Like I said, Love hate.

Yeah, I definitely feel that. And I think that, you know, because there's so many platforms, and so many different types of content and whatever else, you know, to feel like you really do a good job, you end up feeling, you know, myself anyway. And a lot of my clients that I've spoken to you feel a bit like you're trying to be a social media influencer. And you're not, you don't want to be an input. But some of the content that's out there is incredible. And so, you know, when you're saying, oh, I want to do really well, and you're looking at what really well is, that becomes a bit of a losing battle. Because, you know, sometimes you never know what's really going on behind the scenes. First of all, some of these people have huge teams. And you know, realistically, they're doing some of the recording, and then that's it. Other people are doing it all on their own. But the piece there is you don't know what's going on behind the scenes, and often people that is their job, they're not running up as an additional business to their social media. That is their business.

Absolutely, yeah. They're an influencer. I guarantee it. Yeah. And you don't know how long they've been doing it. You know, I mean, to judge, maybe you're beginning or even middle compared to someone who's been doing it for, you know, 1015 years? Like, I think that is one thing, too. But yeah, I'm just thinking about this, and how I really feel like it's so important to have goals. Again, why are you doing it? What are you trying to accomplish? Because if you don't, I think what ends up happening is you get sucked into the lights and the engagement, and then you start to base your own success, or even your identity on, you know, your social media, and that is not healthy for anybody that's most likely going to lead to burnout, or just, you know, not showing up and doing it because you're feeling like feeling and so I just did a training a few weeks ago, and one of the influencers who was running it, you know, but she said something that I truly believe is like, are you, you know, are you using social media to get to make like to get bites or to make money. And I have to stop all the time. And like, maybe my reel isn't getting 1000s of likes, but I know how much money on vaping. And I know sometimes that my business is more successful than someone who may be getting more engagement, but their business isn't, you know, as successful. And so it goes back to like, why are you using it? What do you want to accomplish? And is it doing those things for you? If you don't have get clear on that, then yeah, you just need to be constantly chasing likes and feeling that rewriting the roller coaster of social media. 

Totally. I feel like and I often say and it really works in almost every situation. What is the objective? Why are we doing this? And you know, the vanity metrics, as I refer to them, is, it's great to get all of the likes, and it's great to have tons of followers. But when we're looking specifically at service based businesses, and a lot of those, you know, your customer and you know, service providers need to be in the same location. You know, I say, like followers on the other side of the continent, don't actually help you make money. Now, if you're an online service provider, of course, that's a little different. But you end up with people who have said, you know, I have done Instagram for, you know, years, and they have a beautiful bead. And their investment centers are paying people to create content or captions, or this and that, and they've never actually converted anyone off of social media. And so you start to look at the return on that investment. And it's, it's no, other than, I think that you have to be, you have to be online, because people are looking, even if they're not converting from there, they are looking, and it's part of your brand authorities being online and whatnot. So when you're developing a strategy, how do you encourage that balance between, you know, have to be somewhere maybe it's not have to be somewhere? And, you know, the return and conversion piece?

Yeah. I love what you said. And I would just say first, before I kind of dig into that answer what I was gonna say, to answer that is I think, you know, it really sorry, I'm gonna pause like, I'm, like, jumped out of it. Now I'm trying to come back. 

The Big Question

First of all, I think it depends on where your audience is, right? So the channels that you should be on grows where your audience is. And so are you on the right channel? That's a big question, then when when we look at strategy, like lady wanted me on Instagram, you know, because you liked it, or you enjoy it, or you want to have that beautiful theme you want to, you know, feel like you're measuring up to other people in your industry or whatever. But is that where your audience actually is? So that's one thing. The other thing is, I think just not trying to be in all the places right? So once you figure out where you should be really going online, because unless you have someone helping or you have a team, it's really hard to show up on all the places really well. So if you're gonna say like, Instagram is my place, and that's where I'm going to be then I'm really going to go all in on reels, and I'm really going to focus on Stories and maybe purpose to some other places. But that is one of the biggest things. 

I feel like it's people that are, you know, they're trying to be in all the places I had someone on a discovery call with the other day, and she was like, I want to be on seven, seven platforms, and I'm gonna be posting seven times a day. Wow, what if that's not right before you, I mean, there, you know, and, of course, she didn't want to spend the money to have anyone help her do that. And I was like, but nobody that I know needs to be in certain places, you know. So I think that that is always helpful when developing your strategy and getting really clear on those things. And then the other thing, I think, is like, you know, looking at the bigger picture of kind of your funnel, you know, so Okay, yeah, so you have, you have an Instagram account, and maybe you're getting all this engagement, but then what is what is your funnel from there? You know, where, what are the links that you have? are showcasing? Is it to lead magnet? Is it a free download, you know, are you trying, like, what do you actually trying to get them to do just trying to warm them up. And eventually, you know, you're gonna build an audience. And then in three months, you're gonna focus on like, actually selling, but having those type of goals and then creating your content with those things in mind. But yeah, that's one of the biggest things I see people do is just create content for the vanity metrics, like you said, but no, plan to actually, you know, move, then warm them up, per se, to a funnel to become a paying client, whatever that looks like, because it takes a long time. And I always tell people to flip it and think about people that you follow, like, I need, it takes a long time for you to purchase even a $20 You know, course or something like it's not just gonna happen. Overnight. Yeah.

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Yeah, I think the internet and social media in general has become, I mean it's a competitive space. And so you know, everybody is selling something. And, you know, we see an increase, at least in my I always find it interesting with social media, because it's like, well, this is what I see on social media. But then someone else's version, their side of social media is very different. And so you know, on my side, we've seen a big increase in social selling, a big increase in you know, entrepreneur and freelancer and there's, everybody has got something online. And if they jump there, you know, raising money for a charity or for their child's fundraising, everybody's add, there's a lot of ask online. And so when you're building that strategy, how much value you know, there's lots of different theories on value and give versus ask, what is your take on how much giving a value you should be doing online versus asking?

Um, yeah, I really think I still kind of go back to that, like the 80/20 rule, you know? I think I would think about Gary Vee, like, many years ago, but I still think it's giving a lot of value. And I think sometimes it can even look like you're giving value; you know, at the end there is some type of ask, but it's not selling, and the lady at the app is saying, "Follow us for more tips. So I think it kind of depends on, I guess, the level of the ask. I also say I really love the idea of, I kind of alluded to this earlier, but like having seasons of social media, you know, so maybe it is a season of building and providing value and just letting your fans naturally fall in love with you and know that you are their person because you know them so well. But then there is a season of selling. That season, you know you're getting ready to launch a course or a product you're selling more heavily for a few weeks or so. So I think it kind of depends on how you're coming at it, but I still think it is worth asking valuable questions.

Yes.

Yeah, so there's a couple different ways to go about it. Right I would say in just the day to day flow 80-20 is still a good rule to follow but if you're in more of that seasonal thing then maybe it's it flows per season

Right? You know you mentioned Gary Vee he often you know he's he seems to kind of be the legend of the social media content creation. And, you know, one of the things that he often says that I really come back to when I'm feeling like, you know, oh my goodness, what, what is that next piece of content and And he always says Document don't create. And so, I think right now with such a focus on video, there's so many entrepreneurs who are like I don't want to be on video. That's not my scene. I don't want to be on video. So you know, obviously reels are big ones on Instagram, Tik Tok, YouTube shorts. And now idea pins. I mean, reels are now over on Facebook. Do you think an entrepreneur can be successful without video?

I think it's a lot harder? Well, I would say. Without video in general, I think it's definitely harder. Let's face space on video, you know, like, like, you're doing video, but you don't have your face on there. You know, I think you can have some success that way. And I think again, it goes back to your brand, right? And like, are you facing it or not? And if not, we're just asking why. Because it is, as you know, a smaller business in distinct we are humans, right? So we can never hurt other people. And so if you can, that makes sense for your business for you to be the face and for you to show up or for someone someone's to be the base, I definitely think that makes connecting easier it makes you know that you go from that know, like, trust a lot quicker and be more authentic because of just that human relation. So I do think there's a lot of benefits to it. And I sent it again, I say go back to why because I know I struggled when I first saw my business, like I didn't want my face on my website. And now it's all over it. And it just you know, is there is it just because for whatever reason, we tend to feel like we don't want to, you know, feel like we're bragging or it because of that's just more of like stuff that you just have to work through and get out like, so I would say, you know, if you can't look beyond that, and get comfortable with it, there's a lot of depth to it. And I do think, you know, to go back as I do think you should be doing video of some kind. And it's so easy now, you know, it's, you can't figure out how to do it and you can hire someone to help you and I do you think there are ways you can get creative? If you just really don't it doesn't make sense. Have your face out there. But I think you should be using video. Yeah, you're on Instagram, but you know, Tiktok, this isn't on the channel, and maybe you're on LinkedIn and maybe get around. But otherwise, probably not.

Do you focus on LinkedIn? Is that part of the strategy that you are building out? Is it very client dependent? Or do you focus your strategy on specific platforms?

Yeah, it's client dependent. So it's figuring out where their audience is. And some, I would say most of the time, they'll tell me what they think. And they're usually right. Sometimes they're not really clients, where their audiences are where they should be, and then figure out what content makes sense for that. And so I talked about starting small earlier, like, I really encourage my clients with their strategy, they have one channel that's a priority that definitely we're not repurposing to maybe one or two other channels, especially my team is handling the the execution of it. But if it's just them starting out, it's like one channel that allows us to, yeah, figure out what content is going to do best for them and really go all in on that channel. So LinkedIn is not necessarily my I would say Facebook and Instagram are more my area of expertise. But I do have a client that is really just, you know, doing well on LinkedIn. Upset. Yeah, those are probably and then YouTube. Probably my top four. Right. Right.

So YouTube has been such, almost kind of like this coming from the back. Like, you know, nobody really saw it coming. I'm sure some people did. But in general, I think that when people think of YouTube they think of you know, Mr. Beast comes up, you know, a different Brad Mondo, all of these different people who are YouTubers, and I recently chatted with somebody and he said, I am on YouTube. I'm not a YouTuber, and I was like, Okay, so there is this, you know, distinct piece of what is a YouTuber? And I think that then people automatically assume Hey, I should not like that's not me. You know, it really goes into that I'm not an influencer. I don't think this is not my not my scene. What are some of the advantages of being on YouTube when you're not, you know, the YouTuber, when you are just using it to build brand awareness? 

Yeah, I think you know, I, I heard a great quote. Now it's been a while and things change so quickly. I do not remember it, but it was it. People go to YouTube to watch videos. People do not go to Facebook to watch videos and I just thought that was such a lightbulb moment. Like, yes, we're all using video on Facebook, but people are going there to scroll. I mean, they're moved to quit right? So if they stop collecting your video, you have maybe 10-20 seconds if you're lucky. Yeah. When people go to YouTube to actually like watching videos. So again, it depends on your brand, but You know, people are going there, and you can have a topic that is going to, you know, teach them something or help them with something, and they stumble upon your video and they watch it, you know, you have probably a little bit longer time that you're going to, like, keep them. It's just another way for people to find you. And because it's always Google, you know, SEO, it's just, it's only going to help you. 

So I tell my clients, I mean, if you're doing a video, there's no reason not to put it on YouTube, it's only going to help you. Again, I think, you know, you really want to be crushing it on YouTube. And that needs to be your priority, but it does not hurt to be repurposing your video content over there. And even if you just spend a little bit of time, you know, looking into how to appropriately put in, you know, the information in there to help people find you and then type like, it's just another rate,

Yes. And I think that you know, what you mentioned there in terms of putting the correct information in the right spots is so important. So I, it was a few months ago, I was working with a client, and she had been doing some Instagram lives with another business. And so they had taken the Instagram lives and then exported them and uploaded them to YouTube, which is great. Love the repurposing, fantastic. But in the description, it basically said nothing, absolutely nothing. So you have this channel that has no real subscribers, and you have this description that doesn't describe anything. And so now you have a video that no one I said, I said, even if I was searching for this video, if I knew it didn't exist, and I was searching for it I couldn't find it. And so you know that I think that no matter what type of content you're doing, you know, using how we say if there's a box where you can put a word description, Use them. That's why they're there. Because you know, helping you want to help all of these, whether it's Google or YouTube Help Help the people find your content, you know, you're doing great content, let's get their eyes on it.

Different Language, Different Platforms

Yeah, I think that is one reason why I only say I call myself a social media strategist, that I should probably call myself a content strategist, because the bulk of my strategy is content. And I think once you can really dig in, who your people are, what your story is, and then you know, plan out content, what you're going to talk about, then it doesn't matter where you put it, it's good content. But then it makes it easier to repurpose, right? So it's creating great content. But yes, you got to help people find it. And then if you are going to repurpose, I tell my clients, you got to talk the language of that platform, right? They each speak a different language. Yes, yes, right when my biggest pet peeves is to create that content, and then just throw it everywhere. No, you can take that piece of content and put it on the channels, but you have to like going to France and not trying to speak any French, right? You're gonna get three looks. So at least try your best to okay, what kind of language is for YouTube? And how should I put this piece of content up there, say video, put it on Instagram, but I'm going to use, you know, hashtags or captions, you look different. And so that's another reason why I think it's good to start small. And so you understand the language of those channels before you try to get on it, not as a doctor. Yeah.

No, it can be. You almost get in that kind of analysis paralysis of oh my gosh, I don't know how to do seven channels. And so you spend so much time trying to be like, Oh my gosh, I don't know how to do seven channels, seven channels that you end up not doing any of the channels?

We're not doing them? Well, yes. Yeah. Right. You'd be better off focusing on one or two doing them really? Well.

Yes. Yes. I agree. In terms of, you know, the goal, the objective is to use the content to find and speak to your audience and bring those people in. And, you know, I often hear people say, Oh, I've already I already said that, I don't want to you know, I did that last month or, you know, when it's these little pieces, and it's you know, the way that these the internet and algorithms all work, it's you can follow someone and not see necessarily their piece. And so it's almost like I always kind of think of content, kind of like, cook, you know, choosing the dinner, which is, you know, picking that dinner meal plan is my arch nemesis. And it's like, but you end up with some dinners, you know, some meals that are your go to that, you know, land every time, you know, your kids are going to eat them, you know that they're good. You can cook them, you know how to do them quickly. And then you often you know, you add in a little of this, and maybe you'll find that new meal that your whole family thinks is oh my gosh, this is amazing. But you always want to be still mixing in the stuff that you know. You want to still have that consistency.

Be Knowledgeable

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's where, you know, doing a content brainstorm is great and getting all of your ideas down and as you get more you can continue to put them on there. That's so helpful, you know, just to get all your reviews in one place. And then yeah, when you're ready to create content, you can just pull from that list. But then also, as you're putting content out there, having some metrics that you can, you know, track and see, like, Okay, what to send, it tends to resonate with people. And yeah, I mean, you know, you can do it in a pose that if it goes really well, you can go into more detail in your stories and continue to exist, that content is speaking to people, then, you know, continuing to find new ways to talk about it. And I 100% agree with you that so often, we feel like, Oh, well, I've said it, but they actually heard it, and they're slim. And you can even just say a slightly different way, you know, we have different concepts, and it's going to resonate differently. Or maybe they've heard it, or they didn't remember it, I'm not here to remember anything. So we need to hear things more than once for them to really click too. So lots of reasons why you can absolutely repurpose, and go back to your best stuff. 

I was kind of feeling stuck recently, you know, just feeling like a mindset at all. And I have someone that's helping me with my business. And it's just so nice to have someone who isn't, you know, in the social media space, but they're not necessarily you know, an expert. And so for them to say like, Oh, I think you should check out these things. And I'm, like, really, like, they seem so basic, but like that she's more knowledgeable about social media than most. So it's nice to have that someone else. And you can even just do those stories, you know, ask a poll and ask your audience, what do they want to learn about and then take those and run with it, it may feel the more you become an expert, you know, that are in every every group. So it's oftentimes nice to have someone to bring you back.

That is 100% true. You know, it's NP often people don't want to say, I don't know what that means. No one wants to speak up and be like, I don't know what you're talking about. And so I'm actually working with someone on a collaborative project. And she, she calls her by translator, she's like, okay, so you're gonna say what you're gonna say, and then I'm gonna say, Okay, we can't say that we're gonna, you need to re explain these things. I don't know what you're talking about. And then, you know, she, we, because we're so opposite. And that's why it's a very interesting collaborative project, we kind of translate for each other. And the end result, I think, is it's a better message, because it can speak to, you know, the different knowledge points. And so if you are an expert in your field, sometimes you assume people down. Well, of course, you know, that it's, you know, that's what makes you the expert is that you assume that like that is an assumption of yours. But you often need to talk about those things to again, give people the information that they need to understand to move along the journey.

Yeah, yeah. And I, I think that's actually, you know, something we forget, if you are a newer business owner, or, you know, service based business owner, that is actually in your favor, is that like, you are closer to it, because you're just getting started. So it's actually easier for you to remember and relate to your audience. And I think sometimes, yeah, we tend to forget that, like, we all have sports experience, it's them, but it can actually, you know, work for you, when you're just starting out. Remember that, but yeah, my husband just started a business in the healthcare space, and says, you know, marketing person and helping work through that. It was like, it was really hard, but also helpful in that, like, that doesn't make sense to me. No, maybe like, she thought he was saying it's so basic, it took a lot of work. And the really nice thing has been, you know, we've got as marketing as business launches, websites, nothing like, people go there, and what he hears all the time, it's like, I get it, like, people read it, and they get it. And that is such a compliment. And this for work, you have to remember like, but it will pay off so much. And again, we did that for you know, his, his website. But then now we did take that and just use the media. So it's like, once you're doing it, you know, forever unless you change your brand. So it's so worth the time to put into it.

I think often we overcomplicate the messaging, and think it has to be more creative and more descriptive, and it does need to be all of those things. But sometimes the actual What is it gets lost. You know, it's all these kind of fancy describing words and you know, all this and it's, it's so much fluff that okay, but what are you doing? Like, what did it mean? What are you doing? Or you have to read like, you know, three quarters of the way down the website to say, oh, oh, okay, here it is, this is what we're doing. And sometimes we just need to cut a lot of that out, at least in certain spots. I think there's a place for the fluff. And I think that there's a place for that. What is it? But people need to be able to figure it out. Like they need to be able to open your social media profiles, each open your website, whatever that is and be like, Oh, they do this. Make sense? Got it. They need to know if they're in the right spot. 

Yep, absolutely. Like, yeah, and it's an I think, you know, it's also okay. I see this a lot to its clients and like, maybe they're new or that they have like, they do a lot of things, right? They offer a lot of services. And so we're maybe you're new and you just don't know exactly what you want to do yet, which we're all there, you know, over time, and you kind of niche down with your services. But his business was kind of where he was like, well, we just have to like, pick one thing that we think in, like, go in on that. And that doesn't mean like you said that you don't click through and learn more. But these are other things. Well, what is your one thing? Yeah.

Yes, I was working through this recently with a client we were, it was a brand startup. And the comment was, oh, we can do everything. And I said, Okay, that's good. Well, we can do it for everyone. I said, Okay. The problem is marketing everything. And everyone is impossible. Because no one reads that and thinks, oh, it's for me, they just are like, Oh, it's just I said, it's too vague. And so not, you know, don't be afraid to say, really create the right audience by knowing who that audience is. And if you don't, it's not that you're not going to sell to other people. It's not that you're not going to, but someone has to read it and go, Oh, this is for me. And we've all read whether it's a really well done email where you're like, Oh, my goodness, she's speaking to me, I need this, you know, that that is, is when the messaging has really landed. And when no one no one has that moment, then it really isn't as effective.

Mass Marketing as a strategy

Yep. Yep, I share that exact thing all the time. Like, you know, at what point after days of mass marketing, that was the approach, and it's become so like you said, crowded and noisy now that Yeah, I mean, I always when I'm working with clients are like, Well, okay, so that's like a great message, right? But what can? Is there someone that's going to know your audience better? Can you niche down more, right? Because if so, then they're more likely to go with that person, because they're going to feel more understood by them. So it just makes it harder for you to compete. And it might take time and trial and error to kind of find your people. Well, you've got to start somewhere and, you know, adjust over time, or yeah, it's just, it's too broad. And I like to give examples of that, you know, for me, it was like, I remember that first time that happened to me was when I had my first child, and I was on, you know, she wasn't sleeping, and I was scrolling and it was like, the the ad and it's like, I mean, she even had in their exact times that she was waking up. I was like, yes, read to us. You know, I'll give you all my money. But I felt so known and understood. And I think, yeah, we have to think about that. 

The other way of like, how and also using, you know, we were talking about messaging a second ago, but like using their words, what words they use, versus the words you would use as the expert. And the more you can understand your audience and get in their head. You know, one of my favorite quotes is like to know your audience so well, that you know what they need before they even know they eat it. And I'm sure that happened to it's like, yes. How did you know I needed my life?

Totally. And when people I always, you know, I say what? Someone searched for that? Does someone know they need that? Okay, then we need to figure out what they think they need that leads to what you're offering. Because, you know, there, people have really created incredible products and offers and things and but often people have no idea that their solution that they're looking for is called what you're calling it. They don't know this. And so making sure that you are explaining or describing in a way that they're like, oh, this that you're calling this complicated thing. This is what I'm looking for. Oh, good. You know, and make sure because otherwise, the people can't even find your ideal client can't even find you.

Yep, that's such a great point. I was thinking the same thing. We were talking about YouTube, you know, I like to think about that. Yeah. What would they search for if they were looking for it? Reverse Engineering it?

Yes, absolutely. So if you have one tangible tip that someone could implement today that could make a difference in their business tomorrow, what would that be?

Behind the scenes

Really simply just starting to share your journey and sharing behind the scenes? Sometimes again, you know, we talked about getting over yourself and getting in front of the camera. But I think that is really easy for us to do when we do that. It doesn't need to be, you know, filtered and perfect. And it's also so easy for us to do and it's also really engaging and authentic for the audience, which is what people are looking for on social media. Yes.

Yes. I think that at one time it was more. The perfect, the perfect and now. The focus is really more on the authentic. Yeah, thank goodness. Right. Oh my goodness. Exactly. Alright, so if people want to connect and learn more about social media and strategy and perhaps working with you or your team, where can they connect with you?

Yes. You can find me on Instagram @Tiahopper and then my website is to hopper.com. So super easy. Sybil Baba, though. Yeah, connect with me neither one. 

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being here. Really appreciate it.

Thank you. This was very fun.

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